The Rhode Island Bishop Thomas Tobin has banned Patrick Kennedy from recieving Communion following his attacks on the Catholic Church last month.
Kennedy slammed the church for opposing the democrat’s pro-abortion nationalized health care plan in October.
Kennedy said the church’s opposition did nothing but fan the flames of dissent and discord.
Because of his pro-abortion stand the church banned Kennedy from receiving the sacrament.
The AP reported:
Roman Catholic Bishop Thomas Tobin has banned Rep. Patrick Kennedy from receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, in Rhode Island because of the congressman’s support for abortion rights, Kennedy said in a newspaper interview published Sunday.
The decision by the outspoken prelate, reported on The Providence Journal’s Web site, significantly escalates a bitter dispute between Tobin, an ultra orthodox bishop, and Kennedy, a son of the nation’s most famous Roman Catholic family.
“The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion,” Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday.
Kennedy said the bishop had explained the penalty by telling him “that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I’ve taken as a public official,” particularly on abortion.
He declined to say when or how Tobin told him not to take the sacrament. And he declined to say whether he has obeyed the bishop’s injunction.
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:27 am | #1
Good for the Bishop. And what can anyone say about it?
I say rightly so.
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:03 am | #2
I love the way the Bishop is described in the AP article as “ultra-orthodox,” for attempting to lead his flock. Perhaps it would be more accurate to describe Mr. Kennedy as Ultra-Liberal, or maybe “apostate”?
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:15 am | #3
Kiss my asp Kennedy’s
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:26 am | #4
Being a Kennedy does not make one a Catholic.
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:42 am | #5
I posted this on my page at RedState with the following commentary:
A call was placed to the late Senator Ted Kennedy for comment and answered by St. Peter’s administrative assistant, who offered the following: “The Senator is not here”, she then mumbled something about “downstairs” and disconnected the call.
Payback’s a serious beeee-yatch from up on high, isn’t it ?…….. and they’re still the Kennedy’s, thinking they’re owed everything solely because they’re the Kennedy’s.
Attention needs to be focused towards Congressman Patrick Kennedy’s sponsored legislation and/or his amendments to bills going forward. You can bet there will be some very interesting items included vis-a-vie the Catholic Church and religion in general – my guess goes to tax statutes.
If Bishop Tobin indulges in any earthly pleasures such as cigars, it would be my honor to send him a box of his favs.
November 22nd, 2009 | 9:25 am | #6
It’s funny how they call the bishop an “outspoken” prelate. There is nothing outspoken about following through with Catholic teaching.
November 22nd, 2009 | 9:57 am | #7
I am not Catholic, but as a GOD fearing Christian I have had nothing but the higest respect for the Catholic churches opposition to the murder of the unborn, who the constitution refer to as “our posterity”.
I only pray the Bishop holds his ground, and that other’s in similar leadership positions in the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches will have the courage and strength of their convictions to take the same kind of steps towards those in political office who call themselves Christians
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:12 am | #8
A man for all seasons!
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:14 am | #9
It’s about time. Good for the Bishop for doing the right thing. The media and it’s spinning of the story to poor wittle Kennedy is typical.
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:16 am | #10
Kennedy should just stick to women and booze. That’s what they are famous for and they are not good catholic anyway. Why so bitter?
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:32 am | #11
Check out the comment stream at sfgate – especially poignant if you’ve read 1984:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/11/22/national/a020554S01.DTL&tsp=1
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:36 am | #12
I hope this will give other Bishops the courage to do the same to the likes of Pelosi and Biden or any other cafeteria Catholic that holds office.
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:38 am | #13
What do you want to bet that the bishop informed kennedy that he should be in compliance with the rules of the church, i.e., confession which states you acknowledge and regret your sins and promise to sin no more, before you take the body and blood of Christ into your body. And boohoo kennedy ran to the press (daddy’s dead, don’t you know)for sympathy. EVERY priest is supposed to inform his parishioners they should be in a state of grace before accepting communion. This is taught in ccd.
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:39 am | #14
…Kennedy, a son of the nation’s most famous Roman Catholic family.
Uh, make that a son of the nation’s most famous “Roman Catholic” family. Their lives of uber-politics, and absence of accountability, places them back in the days of 1517, when freedom from punishment of sin could be purchased with money.
Notice the AP, weighing in on the side of indulgences by calling the Bishop “ultra orthodox”. Nice try, AP, but until you purge the lefty editorializing from your “news” articles, you’re about as believeable as the indulgement salesman John Tetzel, on whose door those 95 theses were nailed.
Good for Bishop Tobin. Looks like he’s fresh out of indulgences, and isn’t waiting for some new Martin Luther to nail 95 theses on the church door. It’s the Bishop who’s playing it straight, and the AP and Kennedy allied in privelege and propaganda.
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:41 am | #15
“…human person”
Hey Pat K. –what is an unborn HUMAN PERSON called in your Dark Side (Lucifer’s kids) terminology!?
C-CS
November 22nd, 2009 | 11:24 am | #16
[...] it seems to have filtered down to the bishops, too: The Rhode Island Bishop Thomas Tobin has banned [Rep.] Patrick Kennedy from receiving Communion [...]
November 22nd, 2009 | 11:35 am | #17
The Faithful have been praying for the day when those authorized within our heirarchy would clean house.
Self-proclaimed “Catholics” that do not live as such, need to be called out and separated from faithful Catholics in order tht the church not be used by polititcal hacks to paint themselves with her credibility.
One down.
November 22nd, 2009 | 11:41 am | #18
Wow, it’s about time someone stood up to a politican and said “No more! Make your deeds match your words.”
November 22nd, 2009 | 11:45 am | #19
[...] ACTUALIZACIÓN: A propósito del aborto, he leído este artículo en que se mira con escepticismo el ruido que están haciendo ahora los obispos contra la nueva ley, después del silencio clamoroso de los últimos 20 años. La clave está en si van a empezar a negar la comunión a los políticos peperos abortistas. En los EE. UU. un obispo acaba de vetar a un Kennedy: RI Bishop Bans Kennedy From Communion [...]
November 22nd, 2009 | 11:46 am | #20
Now, that’s what I’m talking about. No more looking the other way on Kennedy shenanigans.
November 22nd, 2009 | 11:54 am | #21
Hooray Bishop Tobin!! At last a Christian cleric publically speaks truth to power and stands up for Christian doctrines and principles. A chorus of Bravos and cheers for Bishop Tobin is needed.
Though raised by devout Lutheran parents and having numerous pastors in my genealogical history I long ago left the late term abortionist
“Killer Heller” harboring Evangelical Lutheran Church in America for a Christian body that still adheres to the gospel and is not for sale by the clerical Johann Tetzels of our time.
If conservatives expect a mailine protestant churchmen to speak out for decency and morality they need to realize hell will freeze first.
The the Frankfurt Schoool philosophy peddlers of moral relativism and cultural marxism compose the vast share of the so callled leadership & clergy of most of America’s present day faux protestant churches. The protestant churches’ clergy and so called leadership are cafeteria christians charlatan, They will never stand up for anything truly Christian.
One would think the empty pews of the traditional protestant cafeteria churches shoud signal its clergy & leadership that marketing deviancy, depravity, decadence, & marxism under the cloak of Christianity is a losing apparoach. The leftist atheist infiltrators and apostles of sodomy and infanticide that have usurped mainline protetantism are dooming it.
Exploding Evangelical membership should give the establishment protestants a hint that fawning over public depravity, advocacy of mass murder by Planned Parenthood, and apostasy is not a formula for populating their congregational pews.
Let us hope Bishop Tobin’s ban of a degenerate
Kennedy signals a new Luther type awakening in at least the Catholic Church. I am convinced of the Episcopalian, Methodist, Prebyterian & Lutheran Churches have suicidally morphed themselves into clueless tools of the marxist left’s faux stale & sudden death atheistic social gospel & abettors of the left’s 1984 style totalitarianism.
November 22nd, 2009 | 12:02 pm | #22
What an ugly, drunken, debauched face this kennedy has !! Stupid, too !! “Human person,” indeed……..!
November 22nd, 2009 | 12:12 pm | #23
I’m very sad for him, pray that he understands the meaning and holiness of all human life from conception to natural death.
Pray, pray, pray.
November 22nd, 2009 | 12:42 pm | #24
Arrogant!
Patrick Kennedy is in line with other liberal Catholics who who think they are above the laws of the Church. Just who do they think they are?
November 22nd, 2009 | 12:45 pm | #25
Patrick Kennedy ha absolutely NO IDEA what he is talking about.
As a Catholic “human person”, he is an embarrassment!
November 22nd, 2009 | 12:51 pm | #26
Good. I think that an ex-communication is just what is needed here…..Think that would wake some of these idiots up?
November 22nd, 2009 | 1:23 pm | #27
…”Kennedy, a son of the nation’s most famous Roman Catholic family.”
As Irish and Catholic I’m sick of those moral degenerates and hypocrits having been made icons of either.
I was hoping with the Big Womanizing-Manslaughtering-Drinking-Socialist’s death they’d all fade away.
William F. Buckley was Irish and and a devout Catholic, his family more represents my values.
November 22nd, 2009 | 1:29 pm | #28
Email Michael Guilfoyle, Bishop Tobin’s Communications Director, and tell him how much you respect the Bishop’s decision.
mguilfoyle@dioceseofprovidence.org
November 22nd, 2009 | 1:29 pm | #29
Mr. Kennedy, you are engaging in a ideological war with the teachings of the Catholic Church. You are not a Catholic by any stretch of the imagination. The entire Kennedy family has not observed any of the teachings of the Catholic religion. You cannot pick and chose which parts of the Catholic Church teachings with which you agree or disagree.
Murder is murder, no matter how you try to claim otherwise. Abortion is murder, and has nothing to do with a women’s choice or health. Abortion is not, and should never be, a means of birth control. But of course to you, and other members of the human hating Democrat left, abortion especially of poor minority women is perfectly legitimate means of population control.
What a coincidence, that the party of slavery at the time of the Civil War, was the Democrats. That fine tradition continues to this day. Where the Democrats are the jackbooted oppressors of freedom and prosperity. The wholesale murder of babies, the silencing of opposition voices, increasing the control of government, destruction of individual freedoms, destroying personal wealth, disarming the people and the taxation without representation are just some of the things that our Democrats can proudly call their own.
You are an abomination as a so called Catholic. Your philosophies on life are not compatible with Catholic teachings. I am a Roman Catholic of Irish descent and quite frankly, you sicken me, with your pathetic rantings of an anti Christian ideology, you sir, are anything but a Christian. I hope for the sake of the Catholic Church you are excommunicated, and the voters of your district throw you out with the bathwater.
November 22nd, 2009 | 1:44 pm | #30
I’m not Catholic, but I always wondered how the Pope could be so strong on abortion and how the Church could celebrate Catholics who legislate abortion. Its good to see a bishop stand for the rights of the unborn. I doubt if Nancy Pelosi’s priest would have such backbone.
November 22nd, 2009 | 1:48 pm | #31
It’s about time. Why not keep communion from him for rape!?
November 22nd, 2009 | 1:57 pm | #32
Seems pretty elementary to this outsider: Roman Catholic doctrine is clear on the abortion issue. If PK actively preaches against clear doctrine, he forfeits the goodies that go along with being a Roman Catholic.
November 22nd, 2009 | 2:12 pm | #33
It’s about time!
Please join http://www.ProjectSycamore.com
November 22nd, 2009 | 2:15 pm | #34
Like Father, Like Son. http://www.FATBOY.cc
November 22nd, 2009 | 2:21 pm | #35
Let poor Patrick do something in the usual Kennedy fashion-
buy his own church.
November 22nd, 2009 | 3:28 pm | #36
Clifford Boerema
November 22nd, 2009 | 9:57 am | #7
I am not Catholic, but as a GOD fearing Christian I have had nothing but the higest respect for the Catholic churches opposition to the murder of the unborn, who the constitution refer to as “our posterity”. …
I would like to echo Clifford’s comments. The Catholic Church has been a city shining on the hill when it comes to protecting the sanctity of life. I am a Christian as well. God-fearing:-). The church has been absent from this fight, at least on the level the Catholic Church has been involved. There are no gray areas in this matter, and the Catholic Church has stood on that.
The pregnancy is what is stygmatized. Society has it totally butt-backwards in saying abortion is the easy choice. Society calls the pregnant woman “selfish” for choosing to have a baby in less than perfect conditions.
I know what a hard choice it is, to decided to have your child, against all odds. Unless the woman has a loving support group, and the love of God, she falsely believes that abortion is the easiest way to handle it.
Society needs to be changed. Until that happens, I thank God that the Catholic Church is an example of what the entire Body of Christ should be, when it comes to protecting the unborn.
November 22nd, 2009 | 3:51 pm | #37
Patrick Kennedy and the AP act as if this is a difference of political opinion. And from the pro-abortion perspective, that’s what it is – with the weight of morality in favor of abortion.
From the Church’s perspective, it’s a matter of Faith and dogma. From conception each human being is a unique creation, with a spiritual presence unrelated to its stage of development. To destroy a human life at an early stage is equivalent to destroying it at any other stage.
Patrick Kennedy actively rejects Church teaching. If the Bishop takes his responsibility seriously, on a fundamental matter of Faith, concerning our dual nature as physical and spiritual beings, he has to respond.
Patrick Kennedy can no longer use his make-believe Catholicism as a political flag of convenience. He does not believe in Catholic dogma, so he is not a Catholic.
November 22nd, 2009 | 4:05 pm | #38
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
1 Corinthians 5:11-13
November 22nd, 2009 | 4:11 pm | #39
Abortion is the murder of the innocent unborn child. Any Catholic who supports abortion excommunicates himself/herself. Remember the 5th Commandment:” Thou shalt not kill”. Kennedy is either a Catholic or he is not. He either stands for the Law of God or he supports Satan’s dirty work. No Catholic can have it both ways. It is time to dispense with the term pro choice, which is, sanitized language designed to hide the savagery of abortion. How can a woman have the choice to murder her own child? We are all answerable to God when we die. Lawmakers will answer to God for evil laws passed. It is time Patrick Kennedy grew up. Similarly the stance of Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden on the abortion issue is an affront to the Law of God. Pelosi, Kennedy and Biden have chosen Godless Liberalism over Catholicism. They have chosen to support the modern holocaust where the unborn are done to death in the modern day gas chambers, namely the abortion clinics. 52 million Americans have been butchered since Roe V Wade. Pelosi, Kennedy and Biden et al seek to justify this. In fact they wish to support taxpayer funded abortion which will further increase the number of babies done to death.
Patrick Kennedy complains. Has he reached the use of reason yet? It is about time that he considered God’s wishes.
You cannot be a slave to Liberalism and be a good Catholic at the same time.
A word of advice for Kennedy, Pelosi, Biden et al:
The Catholic Catechism states:
“Formal cooperation in an abortion” means all the individual who had an abortion, the abortionist who performed the abortion(s), the nurses and other employees that assist in abortions, the administrative staff that provided facilities where abortions were performed, all the individuals who recommended/suggested an abortion, the POLITICIANS who supported abortions and/or who voted in favour of them, all the relatives who supported abortions, no matter their excuse for being in favour of it, and even the religious persons who have supported such an act by word or action.
November 22nd, 2009 | 5:33 pm | #40
The Church position is Biblical on approaching such sinners (yes, sinners): first privately, then with Christian witnesses.
Patrick Kennedy knew this was coming. He chose to make a private, religious matter something public, no doubt to get his constituents to slam the bishop.
Thanks to whoever it was who posted Bishop Tobin’s PR email. He needs much encouragement.
As a Catholic, I’m sick of these malcontents crashing communion rails, sending their kids to our schools to create 4th grade dissent, and parking their Subarus with ‘Obama-Biden’ stickers affixed on parish grounds. The fact that they are comfortable in doing so speaks poorly of many priests.
………………………..
November 22nd, 2009 | 5:56 pm | #41
Thanks be to God for an orthodox bishop with a backbone!
It’s about time a Kennedy was excommunicated. What a brazen, evil family!
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:00 pm | #42
Is Kennedy being refused communion because of his stand on abortion, or because of his public criticism of the bishops’ recent positions on health care reform?
If the former, I disagree with his Bishop. If the latter, the Bishop is a disgrace.
As is everyone who expresses malicious delight over the excommunication of anyone, justified or no.
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:03 pm | #43
Thank you Bishop Tobin – I can hear lots of babies being born that would have been butchered, and perhaps at least one Kennedy making it as far as repentance.
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:18 pm | #44
roger Netzer
This is an issue that goes back many months. Patrick Kenedy had been warned privately and had made the warning public. Thereupon the Bishop released his warning letter. The current AP story is an update of an ongoing story and has nothing to do with the health care debate.
As to the fact that you disagree with Bishop Tobin, perhaps you could put your disagreement in the form of statement. Perhaps you could restate Catholic dogma for those of us who are confused, like the Bishop.
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:20 pm | #45
Note to Pope Benedict: Please transfer Bishop Tobin to my diocese, Rockville Center, LI, NY!
netztard: Is everyone that disagrees with you a disgrace, or just the rare, faithful bishop?
The Kennedys generally make Bawney Fwank look ‘good.’ All things are relative except faith and morals. Name one of the tin horn clan that isn’t or wasn’t a scumbag.
This isn’t 12th century Languedoc. You don’t have to be a Catholic. If you don’t believe in the Church’s pro-life, anti-abortion 2,000 year old teaching, or its stance on ESCR, or stand on parental control over their children’s education, or on the sanctity of the father/mother family, or . . . That’s your choice. The Church has its rights to let you know you’re out in the cold based on your conscious, overt actions.
Oh! Do you have a “9/11 was an inside job” or an “Obama” bumper sticker?
F@#$ You, A$$hole.
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:32 pm | #46
Dear Lyle,
Sure.
My objection to excommunication of public figures who are pro-choice (pro-abortion, if you prefer) is not based on my understanding of Catholic dogma, which is non-expert to say the least.
Rather, it is based on my feelings (“feelings” used here as shorthand for many things difficult to here express that matter to me) about communion. Just as I do not trust our legal system to dole out capital punishment justly, I am skeptical about the capacity of any person to determine who is entitled to God’s grace and mercy.
I wonder what Bishop Tobin would make of sorry me, and I hope I never have to find out.
If we get what we deserve, none of us shall escape whipping.
Roger
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:34 pm | #47
BTW; Netztard: Look it up. The dastard may repnet and be reconciled to the Church. But, he won’t. He knows better about this category of faith and morals. And, getting re-elected is more important to him than not going to hell to be with his infamous uncles.
November 22nd, 2009 | 6:39 pm | #48
Dear No Man,
My intemperate words about the Bishop were meant to suggest that excommunication should never be used as retaliation for criticism of the Church hierarchy.
Roger
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:21 pm | #49
roger,
It’s pretty simple. Patrick Kennedy explicitly rejects fundamental Catholic dogma, and takes actions contrary to it. He’s free to do so, but not as a Catholic.
There are other churches with greater flexibility. I am sure they would welcome Patrick. But it is not appropriate for Patrick to derive the political benefit of Catholicism in a predominantly Catholic state without really believing as a Catholic. The Church is not a political party.
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:24 pm | #50
Dear Odysseus,
The date of your post reminds us that it is Jack’s 46th anniversary of arriving wherever he is.
Netztard
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:33 pm | #51
Dear Lyle,
I am struck by how many posters on this seemingly Catholic site regard being a Roman Catholic as a choice to be freely made, like picking a favorite band.
When you start feeling uncomfortable, move on, seems to be the rule posited. And good riddance. But for some of us — you too I suspect — it is closer to the bone than that.
That’s another respect in which it is not a like a political party.
Roger
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:46 pm | #52
roger,
Maybe I can make it clearer. For someone to find abortion acceptable, he must necessarily reject the Church’s teaching about the nature of the soul. When it comes to Faith, that’s about as basic as you can get.
Your post defies common sense. You compare ex-communication to the death penalty and seem to be arguing that the fallibility of the Bishop is comparable to that of a judge. But surely that doesn’t apply.
Patrick explicitly rejects Church teaching, so the Bishop’s fallibility isn’t an issue. He isn’t interpreting anything, and he’s not saying that Patrick is not ‘entitled to God’s grace and mercy’. That’s up to God.
What’s up to the Bishop is the defense of the Faith. Patrick chooses not to believe, and says so, making the Bishop’s decision inevitable.
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:47 pm | #53
30 years too late
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:49 pm | #54
The date of your post reminds us that it is Jack’s 46th anniversary of arriving wherever he is.
Lost that argument, hey? Pretty good bringing Jack Kennedy into the discussion but do tell me what has one to do with the other? Other than the fact that neither Kennedy adhered to Catholicism.
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:55 pm | #55
roger,
You misunderstand. Catholic faith is a choice freely made, but it’s nothing like choosing a favorite band. It’s a very serious choice about what one believes, and doesn’t believe, on the most profound level.
Patrick has stated that he doesn’t believe in basic Catholic teaching. Having freely made that decision, the only appropriate thing for him to do is to move on. He cannot claim to be a member of the Church solely for political convenience. It is the Bishop’s job to make that choice clear to him, and the Bishop has done so.
November 22nd, 2009 | 7:57 pm | #56
Dear Barbara,
I did not bring Jack Kennedy into the discussion. My remark was in response to the argument, if that’s what you call it, by one of the correspondents that Teddy ought to join his infamous uncles in hell.
And how does a person know whether someone other than herself “adheres to Catholicism”, whatever that means? It ain’t glue.
Roger
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:08 pm | #57
Dear Lyle,
I take it that you believe no Catholic politician can support capital punishment. And that all who do deserve excommunication.
I, on the other hand, do not “find abortion acceptable.” I just oppose the excommunication of those who think it should be legal.
So I guess I am in the magic circle. You are stuck with me, brother.
Roger
p.s. Faith is not a choice, thank God. If it were I’d have botched it.
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:16 pm | #58
I hope this news does not cause him to fall off the wagon. Does his insurance pay for rehab visit #6? http://www.FreeTheND88.org
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:26 pm | #59
roger,
Again you misunderstand. Catholic dogma does not absolutely prohibit capital punishment.
Let me try for the last time.
The Roman Catholic Church says,’To be a Catholic, you must believe these things.’ Patrick says, ‘I don’t believe them.’ The Church says, ‘Then you’re not a Catholic.’
Pretty straightforward.
(I have no idea what you mean by ‘magic circle’ or being ’stuck with’ you; or ‘Faith is not a choice’. Your writing is generally unclear.)
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:31 pm | #60
The kennedys are too stupid to even understand their own faith.
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:34 pm | #61
“I am skeptical about the capacity of any person to determine who is entitled to God’s grace and mercy.”
Roger,
You misunderstand the concept. Every Catholic whose soul is in a state of mortal sin MUST abstain from communion. Absolution must be obtained before the sinner may return to the communion of the Church. As a public official, supporting abortion makes him spiritually complicit in abortions. Church doctrine makes that quite clear. He is in a state of mortal sin, and as such, cannot receive communion. His Bishop is quite correctly informing him that his soul is in peril, and that he has BY HIS OWN FREE CHOICE, separated himself from the sacraments of the Church.
He can repent, as can any Catholic. Or he can become a Presbyterian and do whatever he wants. Catholicism isn’t a right. The Church stands for Life. If Patrick Kennedy stands for the abortion mill, he is not a Catholic. Catholics aren’t kicked out of the Church, we leave by our own persistent acts.
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:36 pm | #62
“I am skeptical about the capacity of any person to determine who is entitled to God’s grace and mercy.”
Roger,
You misunderstand the concept. Every Catholic whose soul is in a state of mortal sin MUST abstain from communion. Absolution must be obtained before the sinner may return to the communion of the Church. As a public official, supporting abortion makes him spiritually complicit in abortions. Church doctrine makes that quite clear. He is in a state of mortal sin, and as such, cannot receive communion. His Bishop is quite correctly informing him that his soul is in peril, and that he has BY HIS OWN FREE CHOICE, separated himself from the sacraments of the Church.
He can repent, as can any Catholic. Or he can become a Presbyterian and do whatever he wants. Catholicism isn’t a right. The Church stands for Life. If Patrick Kennedy stands for the abortion mill, he is not a Catholic. Should the Church be forced to stand for nothing, so that everyone can take the sacraments?
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:38 pm | #63
I hope my Bishop does not http://www.DumpChrisDodd.com from the Church.
November 22nd, 2009 | 8:41 pm | #64
Thanks, Elector. I kept trying to simplify but that wasn’t the way to go.
November 22nd, 2009 | 10:27 pm | #65
Patrick Kennedy:
Everybody knows taxpayer funded abortions are good and so is ObamaCare. The Catholic Church is a bunch of right wing Tea baggers.
Look, I have been sober for almost a year after my drug induced car accident. Drunken Ted Kennedy got away with performing a late-late term abortion on Mary Jo Kopechne why can’t I?
Sure, my hair looks like a writhing nest of asps and I am the cockholder of Barney Frank but that should not disqualify me from my birth right of Communion from the very same church I slandered. I am a Kennedy I must get my way or I will throw a temper tantrum and wreck another car.
Taxpayer funded Abortions are good. The Catholic Church sucks and so do I. My stretch limousine is running and I have to look busy. Good day.
November 23rd, 2009 | 6:28 am | #66
who cares, i know this kennedy guy doesn’t, neither do i. this catholic religion is bogus. priests that molest children, telling their flock what to do and what not to do, while they eat steak every day and sit in 24 karate gold rooms, such as the vatican. bogus!
every catholic i know does whatever they want.
all these so called religious denominations are man made anyway. you want to know GOD,JESUS? read the bible for yourself and follow it’s teachings.
November 23rd, 2009 | 6:54 am | #67
Hypocrites all of them. Nothing but child molesters and then pretend to answer to a higher morality. All churches should be taxed and we will see them start to shrivel up and die as they should.
November 23rd, 2009 | 11:48 am | #68
No one who is alive today should support abortion. Why is this so hard to understand? Is the logic not clear?
November 23rd, 2009 | 3:55 pm | #69
Dear Elector and Lyle,
First, Lyle:
My statement “Faith is not a choice” is no less clear than yours to which it responded: “Faith is a choice.” Can you think of a possible reason you might not understand me other than I do not write clearly enough? (The motes in my eye, maybe.)
The articles of faith — the things one must believe to be a Catholic — are stated in the Creed. The Church teaches abortion is wrong, but so far it is not part of the Creed. Even the Church hierarchy does not require Catholics to believe that teaching, only to abide by it.
Elector!
I trust you will agree that nothing the Church “stands for” in public life is as important as the sacraments it guards.
Shall we excommunicate those who vote for candidates who support abortion rights? Taxpayers whose money is used at abortion clinics?
You say Kennedy did this on his own — but you also concede that it is the men who work in the Church who draw the line between the mortal sinners (Kennedy) and the venial sinners (me, who voted for Obama).
How many did Christ feed at the last super? Eleven? Or twelve?
November 23rd, 2009 | 8:37 pm | #70
Dear Elector and Lyle,
First, Lyle:
My statement “Faith is not a choice” is no less clear than yours to which it responded: “Faith is a choice.” Can you think of a possible reason you might not understand me other than I do not write clearly enough? (The motes in my eye, maybe.)
The articles of faith — the things one must believe to be a Catholic — are stated in the Creed. The Church teaches abortion is wrong, but so far it is not part of the Creed. Even the Church hierarchy does not require Catholics to believe that teaching, only to abide by it.
Elector!
I trust you will agree that nothing the Church “stands for” in public life is as important as the sacraments it guards.
Shall we excommunicate those who vote for candidates who support abortion rights? Taxpayers whose money is used at abortion clinics?
You say Kennedy did this on his own — but you also concede that it is the men who work in the Church who draw the line between the mortal sinners (Kennedy) and the venial sinners (me, who voted for Obama).
How many did Christ feed at the last supper? Eleven? Or twelve?
November 23rd, 2009 | 10:36 pm | #71
“but you also concede that it is the men who work in the Church who draw the line between the mortal sinners (Kennedy) and the venial sinners (me, who voted for Obama).”
They aren’t “guys with a job”. It’s Church doctrine, revealed by the Holy Spirit. It’s the Word of God. If you don’t like it, join a church that supports abortion. If Kennedy doesn’t like being denied the sacrament, he can repent his mortal sin, quit political life, or join the Pro-Life caucus of his Party. If you are a public servant assisting in the procurement of abortion, you are in a state of mortal sin and cannot take the sacraments. One can be Catholic and pro-Life, or some other religion and pro-Abortion.
The reason the Left hates true religion is that ultimately, Faith requires absolutes. There is Right and Wrong, and Innocent Human Life in the womb is sacred. There cannot be any “PC” compromises with evil. We can’t join hands with unrepentant murderers and sing “All You Need is Love”. The Church has one view of Human Life (Sacred, begins at conception), and the Democrat Party has another (animal, can be terminated at any time prior to birth if deemed inconvenient). Can’t reconcile those views.
You are arguing this as if the Church is nothing more than a civil court in which everyone has equal rights. It isn’t that way at all. If everyone but the Pope and this Bishop leaves the Church in solidarity with the abortion lobby, there will be exactly TWO Catholics in the world, and a billion more non-Catholics. The Church survived the hatred of the Emperors of Rome, the Dark Ages, the Scientific Revolution, the KKK, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. It will survive the Kennedy’s, the Obama’s and the Democrat Party will long be history while the Church will remain. The Kennedy’s have brought nothing but shame and disgrace to the Church. It might be about time for them to move on.
November 24th, 2009 | 7:12 am | #72
Elector,
You forgot to mention how the Church survived Galileo and the Crusades. And yes, “the Church” survived Hitler. If that’s what you call survival.
Do you think the Church is something more important than the souls within it, the souls that are its only body?
The public stances of the Church — including smug grandstanders like Tobin who adore the spotlight — are a speck on the immensity of the sacrament.
The real work of the Church, and its truth, lie be. And not evenits public prwhere your ranst cannot reach it.
Beware those who claim, in the public forum where disgrace is the rule, to spew in the midst of the fray what they call the Word of God.
November 24th, 2009 | 7:14 am | #73
Dear Elector,
You forgot to mention how the Church survived Galileo and the Crusades. And yes, “the Church” survived Hitler. If that’s what you call survival.
Do you think the Church is something more important than the souls within it, the souls that are its only body?
The public stances of the Church — including smug grandstanders like Tobin who adore the spotlight — are a speck on the immensity of the sacrament.
Beware those who claim, in the public forum where disgrace is the rule, to spew in the midst of the fray what they call the Word of God.
November 24th, 2009 | 8:57 am | #74
“Do you think the Church is something more important than the souls within it, the souls that are its only body?”
You are very weakly trying to draw me into some sort of liberal, wishy-washy, argument that “it’s all about peace and love man”. The argument that the sacraments are simply a “feel-good” way of being spiritual is absurd. You aren’t talking about Catholicism, you are talking about hippy-dippy Socialism. Go be a good little Socialist. I don’t condemn anyone for their political beliefs. Just don’t try to turn the Church into a U2 record.
November 24th, 2009 | 9:24 am | #75
Dear Elector,
That all arguments I make are made weakly is a given.
I hope that some day you make the (to you) mistake of thinking anything is about peace, or love.
I pray your eyes and ears and heart may be opened, but not before mine.
Good luck.
Hippy Dippy
November 24th, 2009 | 11:11 am | #76
Dear Elector,
Whoops I forgot two things, on both of which I believe us to share common ground:
1. Since you did not correct me I still trust that you agree that nothing the Church “stands for” in public life is as important as the sacraments it guards.
2. I agree the sacraments are not a “feel-good” way of being spiritual. I won’t say that what you feel after taking communion doesn’t matter, but the efficacy of the sacrament does not depend on the feeling it engenders.
If communion brings you joy, awesome. If it does not, take it anyway. Whether you are in ecstasy or near despair, it does you good you can neither know nor feel.
November 24th, 2009 | 3:33 pm | #77
“If communion brings you joy, awesome. If it does not, take it anyway. Whether you are in ecstasy or near despair, it does you good you can neither know nor feel.”
What is that supposed to mean? Are you Catholic or Protestant? You don’t seem to understand the meaning of Catholic Sacraments. Kennedy is barred from taking Communion because his soul is in a state of mortal sin. All Catholics are barred from Communion while in a state of unrepented mortal sin. Communion is not meant to make anyone feel anything in particular. It is an outward sign of inward grace, it is an act which represents a Truth. Anyone who takes the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin is violating not only Church Law, but is mocking Christ by acting out a lie.
Once again, if you want the Catholic Church to change the meaning of Sin, Evil, and the Sacraments to fit the Leftist Party line, just say that. If I were pro-abortion, I would find a different Church, not try to change 2000 years of Church doctrine. The sacraments are too important to pervert them in the cause of politics, which is what the Kennedy’s and other Democrat Catholics want to do.
If we fail to protect the innocent Life in the womb, how then are we fit protectors of the weak, the poor, the infirm, the elderly, the “least of His brothers”? What else will we compromise? It isn’t a “stand” or a “position”. It’s a first principle. Without a defense of Human Life, we can stand for nothing else. There isn’t any point in having a Catholic Church if it chooses what is popular and feels good, over God’s Will.
December 1st, 2009 | 2:15 pm | #78
There is a difference between the Church (a) taking a prophetic stand against abortion and (b) doling out excommunication to those elected representatives who vote a particular way upon a particular bill. The former is appropriate; the latter will be disastrous.
Consider this example of the latter: Should an elected congresswoman be excommunicated for voting against legislation mandating life imprisonment for expectant mothers who abort an unborn child? After all, we are told abortion is murder. So such a penalty is not obviously disproportionate. Is that congresswoman not “supporting abortion”?
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